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I've been sharpening with King brand water stones for years and I have always hated the sharpening process. It's messy, the sludge irritates my fingers, flattening the stones is a hassle, and I find that I wait until all my tools are dull and then make an entire day of it. Last weekend my gold stone broke in 1/2 and, since I have to replace it, maybe now is a good time to make a switch. I'm also considering some Hock blades and have heard that King stones are very slow to sharpen A2. I've been looking online at Norton, Shapton, diamond, Bester, Imanishi and am totally confused. Also, cost is a definite factor. So what do you all use and like. I'd like to find something that I can stick with for years. Only interested in stones, since I am happy with my Kell and Veritas honing guides. Thanks, Wendy

Lee Valley has some new ceramic stones. Have not seen or used but they are bragging them up a bit. May be worth a look.
Tom

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I use these Japanese "Super-Stones" by Naniwa :
http://www.toolsforworkingwood.com/Merchant/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=toolshop&Product_Code=MS-SSWAT.XX&Category_Code=THW
They are a little slower cutting than traditional natural waterstones but don't require the frequent flattening or pre-soaking. The net for me is quicker sharpening, less mess and longer lasting stones.

I don't have one yet, but have used a Norton three stone thingamajig that works very well.
Tri-stone?
Got an oil bath at the bottom, with 3 diff grit stones that you spin around like a rotisserie.
Thumbs up.

I use a Coarse Diamond coated 8" steel plate that I got from Woodcraft. I then go to Norton waterstones. Nice thing with this setup is the Diamond plate is also perfect for flattening the watersones which get dished pretty fast. Since I use a Veritas sharpening jig that has a bronze wheel that it rides on and this leaves some residue over time on the diamond plate. When you flatten the waterstones, the diamond plate gets cleaned of this and other debris that has accumulated.. All around It works pretty well for me. I'd recommend it.

Regards, Peter Z

If the break was clean you can glue that King Gold stone back together
with medium CA. Is it the 8000? It'd say G-1 or G-3 on it if it is.
Good stone imo.

I highly recommend the Shapton M15 2000 and 5000. The latter is finer
than the nominal grit rating. Hard, good feedback, fast cutting, *very
slow* wearing. EastTool West still has them I think, and maybe Hida.
For finest surfacing the Naniwa 8000 'Jyunpaku' is excellent.
None of these need soaking btw.

The woodworking boards are all agog with diamond paste. It is so much faster than stones, though it can be used the same way with guides if one wants. To some extent guides are less necessary since it cuts so fast precise alignment isn't so critical, like a strop. It is also extremely cheap, and does not require flattening.

My 8000 grit King has broken from falls a couple of times, both times I glued it back together with epoxy. Worked for me...

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I also broke a King 6000x and glued it back together with super glue (CA). Had to re-flatten it obviously but still works fine...
BTW, all these stones need to be well supported; many of them come with these flimsy little plastic "stands" which may look cute but are basically useless.
You might want to make yourself some kind of stone holder that supports your stones along their full length.
pvg

Wow, I went off for 1 day and came back to all this great information. I had thought about gluing my stone back together, but I'm not sure the break is clean enough for CA glue. Maybe it would work with epoxy and then reflattening. I'm still ready to make a change though, so I appreciate all the information. If I continue using the method I am now, I will continue avoiding the job of sharpening. Part of the problem is finding a place to leave it set up so I can quickly sharpen as necessary. The King stones need to be flattened too often, and doing that with wet paper on a glass plate is a mess. I don't have any extra room in my tiny shop and I have been sharpening on my kitchen counter next to the sink. Too tall for me for one thing. I just set the stones on one of those rubber bathtub mats with the little suction cups on the bottom. It supports them all along their length and they don't slip. I didn't drop my stone, so I don't know why it broke. It never froze, always kept in the house. It came unglued from the wooden base, so maybe there was a spot of glue on the bottom that made it sit unlevel. It was very old, I think I got it in the early 80's. Thanks for all the info. By the way, are you using the course diamond plates to flatten your stones? Wendy

I'm using a coarse diamond plate to flatten my stones. The brand is Dia-Sharp which I purchased at Woodcrapt - Mine has lost it's tooth too soon for my tastes (not from flattening, which uses the whole plate, but more towards the center where I mostly work my chisels/plane-blades). Bottom-line: If you are looking for a Diamond plate, I'd look for something with a better review than the brand I have. It still works perfectly and quickly for flattening stones, it's just when you go to sharpen metal stuff, you can feel that the center has a lot less bite than right out at the edges...

Regards, Peter Z

I want to convert to the diamond and waterstone routine I'm seeing here. Looking for the right combination online I found what looks like 2 stones that should cover most needs:
DMT 8" Duo Sharp Plus coarse/fine combination diamond stones, and
Norton combination 4000/8000 waterstone

Does that seem like a good starting setup? (about $180 total)

Thanks for all the input.

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Chuck Kish

I will say that you just have to follow Todd's advice on the video and you will get good results . I bought the water sharpning system and I sue the diamond and water stones . It isn't that hard to have perfect chisels and sharp tools. A dull chisel is an accident waiting to happen .

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Todd, I know what you are saying, but there is a big shift happening, at least with the guys I talk to. And it is funny for me to be saying this, because on the wood forums I am still fighting for stones where the over-reaction against them is concerned. What is happening this year, vs. only a year or two ago, is that the fiddlers as you might have it, are moving away from their sharpening obsession, and going for diamond. One person who is a big collector of stones both natural and man made, and also of buyer of the very best Japanese hand tools, but also a tallented user, has jumped ship and gone all diamond, and is even moving to HSS home made tools.

This is a big change, a lot of traditional postions are moving. The word "collapse" I only have about a year under the belt, and mostly use the paste for my machine tools, but I am being drawn in also. But you have to do it right.

The revolution is being driven by two perceptions:

- Whether you were a speed freak, or a guy who just loved the zen of sharpening, you have come to believe your method is not as fast, or easy, or as cheap, as diamond.

- The other part is the diamond doesn't care what steel you use. So I like the very best Japanese tools, or historic cast, or O1. Lee Valley as one example offers a lot of tools in A2 or O1 to pander to different groups of preference. Irrelevant with paste. It will sharpen faster than anything you have used, any steel you use. That is a game changer.

If you are using a lot of paste or it is messy, you aren't doing it right.

I still use my stones because it still works just as well, but I don't know what i would do if I didn't own them. That is where the diamond guys oversell it isn't better for every single situation or use, but it might be the best for most.

Also, I have heard excellent reports of oils stone treated with paste. I don't want to do it, because I want to keep my oil stones oil stones. But those who don't care about that can go that route with only the marginal cost of the paste. I assume one would still have to use oil, and in that case it would be better, ATMO, to just skip straight to diamond.

"A dull chisel is an accident waiting to happen ."

I just want to add a word of caution. Valid advice. And the main point is that an actually dull chisel isn't a chisel. But people need to have respect for sharp edges also. The damage a sharp edge can cause is awesome. I know we all know this, and the point about dull is that one can loose control and then get badly stuck, but should that happen thank god it was dull. Many accidents are possible with a sharp edge also, and they are likely to be a lot worse.

I'm not proud. Back 30 years ago, I did all my sharpening and grinding by hand. I once dropped a Japanese plane blade, that I had just finished honing. Scared of what would happen when it hit the concrete floor, I stuck my Birkenstock covered foot out to catch it. Being of English heritage, I was wearing wool socks. I caught the blade with my foot. Like a dropped slice of buttered bread, will it hit the floor butter up or down? Good news! Just a little bang to the foot, no damage done. Got back to work. A few moments latter I became aware my sock was sloshing around in pool of wet stuff in the bed of my sandal...

Speaking from a shop full of dull tools, I appreciate Todd's perspective and can't wait to get the diamond stone and Norton stone I just ordered. Then -- sharpening fest to get to a baseline of sharpness that I can keep there with a habitual minute to the stones whenever needed.

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Chuck Kish

I grind on a slow speed 7" Baldor, go directly to a large 600-grit polycrystalline EZE-LAP, which I much prefer to monocrystalline DMT laps, then to a cast iron lapping plate charged with 14,000-grit diamond paste. That's right. No in-betweens, no intermediates. No tricks. No gimmicks. No sleight of hand. Right to the 14,000. Easy, fast, cheap. And no cross-contamination.


For anyone who wants to know about that, read this thread:

http://tinyurl.com/UsingDiamondPasteOnStones

and the thread referred to:

http://tinyurl.com/DeglazingOilStones


Woodworkers and bladesmiths are beginning to use truly interesting steels, too, like CPM M4 and other powder technology crucible steels. Diamond handles these tough tool steels with ease.

I agree. You don't even really have to rush to beat the clock. It becomes almost absent minded, like dipping a pen into ink.

Several years ago, I kicked the business end of a Sandvik chisel with my bare foot (because I was stupid enough to leave un-sheathed chisels on the floor). If you know anything about any European chisel, is that they're very very sharp (and they stay that way, not have had any Taiwanese or hardware store chisel come close to that). It hurts thinking about it...

I really do not want to think about kicking my new Two Cherries chisel by accident... they appear to be very sharp out of the box.

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